– You shared a long post on social media today saying ‘What is happening in Syria is class-based’. What exactly do you mean by class?
We have been saying for years that the phenomenon called imperialism cannot be reduced to the aggressive and expansionist foreign policy of the USA. Imperialism is a phenomenon specific to the monopoly stage of capitalism. In this sense, every capitalist country harbours an imperialist tendency within itself. The capitalist class is expansionist, invasive, confrontational, ultimately in competition with other capitalist groups or powers. However, not every capitalist country has the ability to realise this. It requires economic, political, military and ideological might. The hegemony of the USA may be shaken, but it has not yet collapsed. It is attacking and developing new alliance systems to maintain its hegemony. New alliances are being formed against it. However, as long as these alliances are based on capitalist exploitation, they cannot be permanent, they cannot benefit billions of poor people living on the earth. Alliances based on capitalist exploitation mean conflict, and war. It is the multinational monopolies who want to break Syria into pieces, who want to exploit Syria’s resources, who want to increase their own ability to mobilize. The monopolies of the ‘great powers’, which today seem to be on the opposing side or are quietly and deeply involved, will also take their share from the new balances that will emerge. Against this, only an egalitarian system, based on a socialist economy and uniting all sects and ethnic divisions, could have secured the confidence of the people and strengthened Syria. Syria does not have this. In the face of the attacks of the USA and the regional reactionary forces, Syria has been forced to rely on the help of foreign powers. After all, those foreign powers have their own interests. Defence of the country without a class perspective only goes so far. This applies to all countries.
– And isn’t there a resistance front in the Middle East? One that includes Palestine, Syria, Lebanon, Iran. Also supported by Russia…
It exists. However, the internal fabric of this front is loose, weak and contradictory precisely for the class reasons I have mentioned. Its strength is the ‘populist’ tendencies that make themselves felt in some parts of this resistance front and replace the left. Its weakness is that it is trying to find a place for itself in the current world system and is looking for a way to come to an agreement with the United States.
– Isn’t that the reality of the world? In the end, you will have to come to an agreement with the US at some stage. Isn’t it the content of the agreement that matters?
Of course it is. But what you represent is important. Look, Iran is in the firing line. That’s why it is trying to defend itself. However, the system in Iran that does not rely on the people, it relies on its own ruling classes and has little power to resist. No matter how you look at it, there is a problem. Even if you do not look at the issue from a class perspective and reduce it to the issue of ‘the nation state is being attacked’, Iran is weak because its system does not rely on the people. The repressions in Iran, the religionism, the aggression against women, all these are problems in themselves, but they are also problems for those who look at life not from here, but from geo-strategy nonsense. Because US imperialism exploits all these things very well. Here is the situation of women, there is no democracy… In the face of this, the Iranian government’s defence is to accuse everyone who seeks their rights of being spies. Doesn’t this sound familiar? This attitude also helps the US, which pretends to be an apostle of democracy and human rights. Syria is not Iran, of course, at least it was a secular country, but the problem is the same. Capitalism is bad in itself and a disaster in terms of national defence. No need to look for spies. From this point of view, the rule of capital is the real fifth column.
– Back to Syria. Is there an agreement?
The process is still ongoing. However, based on what has happened so far, we can say the following. For months, there has been talk of a deal involving Ukraine and Syria. We have constantly voiced this, and the step was taken without waiting for Trump. This is not surprising because talks between the US and Russia have been going on at certain levels. It seems that Israel, Britain and Turkey made a move together before the Ukraine issue was even on the table. While Iran wanted to come to an agreement with the US and Russia was waiting for the new US administration to recognise its gains in Ukraine, they could not respond to this move and stepped back for now. Syria has been de facto divided for a long time. Now, we do not know whether these three or even four parts will turn into a new status quo that everyone recognises, or whether an Israel-US-Turkey compromise that includes Damascus will create a completely loose but so-called united Syria. But in any case, nothing good can come out of this. One possibility is that the agreement will turn into a fiasco and the bloody wars will escalate. But what I can see is that Russia will make all kinds of concessions in Syria in order not to jeopardise an agreement in Ukraine and, moreover, in order to ‘get along’ with the United States.
– Do you think that Russia has sold out Assad? These statements of yours point to that. There are even those who say that Russia is punishing Assad for not agreeing with Erdoğan.
No, I don’t think so. The Putin administration intervened in Syria to protect its own interests. Now it is withdrawing in line with the same interests. Undoubtedly, Russia played a de facto positive role in Syria for a while. But only up to a point. There are no principles in capitalism. Assad was rightly saying ‘why should I meet with someone who has troops in my country’. What he was wrong about was the weak ground on which he relied. In Syria, without a socialist system that will unite the working people, the vast majority of the population, there are limits to maintaining power on the basis of one or more capitalist countries.
– What can be said about Turkey? Some say ‘great success’, others warn that ‘a Kurdish state is being established’. What do you think happened?
Let them continue to argue among themselves and shout at each other. What happened is the best proof that one cannot stand against imperialism without a class perspective. The AKP legitimised its Neo-Ottomanist policies and opened space for them by pointing to the ‘terrorist threat’ on ‘security’ grounds. A mentality that says to the USA ‘Leave the SDF and let us design the region together’ and the SDF that says ‘Leave Turkey and let us design the region together’ actually complement each other. Lucky imperialists! I include those who want to solve a problem in their own country with the call of ‘let’s unite, let’s design the region together in order to solve the Kurdish issue’ and those who support this. Isn’t it inevitable that this stupidity and evil is led by US imperialism! What are they discussing now? Is HTS co-operating with the SDF or not? Is this the issue? Any co-operation with imperialism is bad, no matter who does it. Full stop. It is as simple as that. There are no buts. There is no ‘homeland defence’ with a NATO mindset and a market economy. We will soon see with what appetite the queue for investment and plunder in the dismembered Syria will be organised. And which countries will be at the front of that queue…
Finally, I would like to say one more thing. We are already a country in alliance with the USA. We are a NATO member, unfortunately. AKP is also an organisation seeking co-presidency with the US. These are facts. But did you see how were the dimensions of co-operation with Israel exposed? This cannot be called co-operation. The government is waging a joint war with Israel in a neighbouring country. Openly. With a straight face.
